The neck has dropped into the body

Can someone please help! I just sold this Godin 5th Avenue on ebay and the guy came to collect it, took one look and refused to buy because 'the neck had dropped into the body'. Is he right (see pic) and is it worth getting fixed? Thank you!

Comments

  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    I guess the action has always been a little high for that fact the bridge is wound fully down.
  • MegiMegi Posts: 7,191Member
    Bad luck! It does look a bit wrong to me I'm afraid - the wood underneath the fingerboard is almost touching the guitar top, which I don't think it's supposed to be like. Also it looks like the rosewood fingerboard itself has become separated from the wood beneath at the top end. And the frets do look to take a bit of a downward dip from about the 14th fret, so that the action gets rather high at the top. So I have to say I can't blame the person for not buying. Can it be fixed? - I'm no expert, but it could be worth finding a good local guitar maker who does repairs, and just arrange to show him the guitar and get an opinion. If it's economic to fix, they would be able to tell you.
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Thank you! I can see the action is rather high, but I bought the guitar new and could've sworn it has always been like that - I think I may have been defective from new and it has been a year now so it's far too late to send it back. I didn't sense any reason not to trust him, I just wanted to make sure! I'm aware that I may be at fault! :-)
  • Ape09090Ape09090 Posts: 2,744Member
    Isn't it supposed to look like that?
  • Options
     Originally Posted By: Megi
    the wood underneath the fingerboard is almost touching the guitar top, which I don't think it's supposed to be

    Know what you mean and agree your other points, but have seen/used enough gu1tars where the gap has varied a lot and all correct and per manufacturers geometry.

    The set neck having 'dropped' would be unusual, especially on a newish guitar. Manufacturing fault - even on a £600+ gu1tar - a distinct possibility.

    If this is a similar model

    there should adequate adjustment between min and max. Can't see the neck in Shoebox's pic, but wouldn't be surprised if it has 'banana'ed' - yeah, that bad \:o (central heating?)

    As said, show to someone who knows gu1tar geometry.
  • MegiMegi Posts: 7,191Member
     Originally Posted By: Surfsilver
    Know what you mean and agree your other points, but have seen/used enough gu1tars where the gap has varied a lot and all correct and per manufacturers geometry.
    On further thought, this is a good point, and the neck may in fact be set correctly given what Surf says - so I could be wrong there I admit - I was just going by guitars I've seen and owned. However, there does still appear to be a slope off of the highest frets (though hard to tell for sure from a photo) and I think the action definitely looks too high, especially given the bridge is adjusted as low as it will go. If this is the case, it might be possible to have the bridge altered in some way to lower the action. But yes, as Surf says, get advice from a qualified person.
  • Pete_BPete_B Posts: 563Member
     Originally Posted By: Megi
    Bad luck! It does look a bit wrong to me I'm afraid

    I think some of the wrongness is using a wide angle lens, even the strings look curved in the photo!
    There is no Mojo!
  • AlidoreAlidore Posts: 528Member
     Originally Posted By: Megi
    Bad luck! It does look a bit wrong to me I'm afraid

    I think some of the wrongness is using a wide angle lens, even the strings look curved in the photo!
    Pete.

    “There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.”
  • MegiMegi Posts: 7,191Member
     Originally Posted By: Alidore
     Originally Posted By: Megi
    Bad luck! It does look a bit wrong to me I'm afraid

    I think some of the wrongness is using a wide angle lens, even the strings look curved in the photo!
    OK, could well be, in which case the situation is not as bad as it seemed. Hopefully this is the case!
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Does this provide a better view?

  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Thank you for the replies - I'm just having a little bit of a hard time believing that as the neck and body look like they are two separate entities that one could've 'dropped' into the other! But I'm quite willing to be proved wrong!
  • Options
    Ouch! that neck's out by a mile \:o

    Bad marks for the shop if they sold it to you like that and at least not advising you spend on a basic set-up. Without a hands-on, difficult to say if it's a maunfacturing fault? Or have you been leaning it against a radiator \:o

    Edited to add, and/or have you put steel caber strings on it - like Megi
  • MegiMegi Posts: 7,191Member
    Well, plugging on, I have to say the action looks massive in that shot - just way too high. On the plus side, the neck does appear basically straight, so I was probably wrong about that. But I would say there is something definitely wrong for the action to be like that, especially with the bridge at it's lowest. I do think take the guitar to be looked at by a guitar maker. Any thoughts Ape, Surf, Aldore?
  • MegiMegi Posts: 7,191Member
     Originally Posted By: Surfsilver
    Ouch! that neck's out by a mile \:o

    Bad marks for the shop if they sold it to you like that and at least not advising you spend on a basic set-up. Without a hands-on, difficult to say if it's a maunfacturing fault? Or have you been leaning it against a radiator \:o

    Edited to add, and/or have you put steel caber strings on it - like Megi
    Sorry Surf, you posted while I was typing, but at least we agree the action is way off. I would have thought even super heavy gauge strings could not account for that! Anyway, I have to say it looks out of my limited experience to fix, so I do think it needs to be taken to an expert.
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    No, it's lived away from a radiator in a guitar rack for the entire time I've had it! My house is not the warmest and a little damp but not outrageously so, I don't think, but perhaps it's just been enough to do some damage. I would've thought it would have been made well enough to withstand fluctuations in Canadian temperatures so surely English seasonal changes are a cinch! :-)
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    I think they are on the medium side, 11-52s maybe! Yes, maybe a trip to a shop at the weekend would be in order and hopefully they give it a clean bill of health and I can relist! It's a shame because it really is a nice sounding guitar and I am quite used to a high action so it seemed quite normal to me.
  • MegiMegi Posts: 7,191Member
    Afraid I really do think the action is way too high Shoebox, even if you have got used to it yourself (you must have very strong fingers!). So to my mind there is something wrong, which needs fixing before it could be sold as in good playing condition. If the shop says it's fine as it is, I personally don't believe them. But I do hope you can get it sorted out, and feel optimistic that this might well be the case, best of luck with it! \:\)
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Thank you Megi - much appreciated! It's funny what you get used to, isn't it? Just annoying I had to find out by a lost ebay sale! It went for £240 and I'm guessing it'll cost at least half that to fix, but such is life.
  • aspguitarsaspguitars Posts: 40Member
    Hi! and sorry to hear about your sell. Your guitar looks to me as if someone has put a larger gauge of strings on it and not compensated with the Truss Rod. I have to admit, that I've never worked on one of these, but going buy your last pic, the neck looks fairly straight. If you are not happy adjusting your Truss Rod I suggest you take it to a decent setup man. If you decide to do it yourself, drop me a line if you need any help.
    Hope this helps
    Ade
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Thanks Ade, I'll drive to my local shop on the weekend and if it is just a truss rod adjustment I may have a go myself(?) although I can't see where a key would go... forgive the ignorance! Actually, maybe I should leave it to an expert :-)
  • aspguitarsaspguitars Posts: 40Member
    I agree, if in doubt leave alone. If you tighten it too much, you could do some serious damage. Most dealers will do it free of charge. When I had my business I wouldn't dream of charging. If can find it, as you don't have a standard sound hole, it's probably up on the headstock under a cover. As I said, I've never worked on one of these so I'm not too sure. I'll look into it though.
    Ade
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Aha! Yes, there is a cover with two screws on the headstock - probably where it's hiding!
  • aspguitarsaspguitars Posts: 40Member
    Here you go Shoebox. I knew I'd seen it somewhere. Godin's have a Double Action Truss Rod which adjusts both ways, Convex and Concave. You need to tighten yours to pull the neck back slightly. ONLY A QUARTER OF A TURN AT ONCE! then leave it for an hour as it may carry on moving once you've turned it. Some Truss Rods move instantly, but yours looks like it needs quite a bit of adjusting, so the trick is small movements and then give it time to move.

    Have a look at this.

    http://www.godinguitars.com/Double%20Action%20truss%20rod%20adjustment.pdf

    Ade
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Thank you for that - brilliant! Hope this is not too silly a question, but can I leave the strings on whilst doing it? Slackened a bit obviously! An I guess I'll know when I'm done when the board looks virtually level?
  • aspguitarsaspguitars Posts: 40Member
    By adjusting your Truss Rod you are really trying to get a happy medium between the tension of your strings and your neck. With most steel string guitars, if you didn't have a Truss Rod, the tension of the strings would just pull your neck forward, giving you a really high action. So the answer is yes, you have to have the strings on or the Truss Rod won't have any tension to work against. Again, if you are not too sure, get a set up man to do it. Where are you by the way?
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Yes, my hesitation and naive questions suggest I should leave well alone! I'm in Brighton at the moment, so I do have a few places nearby.
  • MegiMegi Posts: 7,191Member
    Do be careful Shoebox, I hope it is the truss rod and thus can be easily fixed, but to me the action in that last picture looked so high that I do have my doubts, and as has already been stated, it is possible to do serious damage by over-tightening a truss rod. In terms of straightness, the neck is about right when if you fret a string at the top and bottom of the neck simultaneously, there is just a fraction of play over the frets in the middle - say about a couple of playing cards thickness - i.e. just very very slightly concave. If you get the neck like this and the action is still too high, then I don't think it's down to the truss rod. But I would be delighted to be proved wrong!
  • aspguitarsaspguitars Posts: 40Member
    A bit too far away, I'm near Portsmouth. GAK should be able to help you. I've had dealing with them in the past and they've always been good.
    One thing that I did forget to mention is when you (or whoever you get to do it) does it, make sure that it's tuned to the pitch that you normally play in. My SG was always tuned down a tone, and therefore the Truss Rod adjusted accordingly. I know that some people like alternative tunings these days and this will also affect the Truss Rod. You should try adjusting it with a Floyd Rose, great fun!
  • ShoeboxShoebox Posts: 17Member
    Yes, they were my initial thought, but thank you for the offer! I used to live and do still work in Chichester so that wouldn't have been a million miles away! Thanks again for your help!
  • Ape09090Ape09090 Posts: 2,744Member
    It looks like a beautiful guitar that would benefit from a set up to me.

    I think the neck being separated from the body is a facet of the design of the guitar.

    The guy who bought it on ebay then refused to take it away must be a bit of a dope in my eyes.
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