My new ditty

Bob GnarlyBob Gnarly Posts: 159Member
edited March 2017 in Community Member Performances
With new found confidence after positive comments from last tune, I would be delighted if you would have a wee listen to my new ditty, and maybe comment (sets self up for fall)

Cinnamon Girl


Thank You.
Bob (Barry)

Comments

  • Bob GnarlyBob Gnarly Posts: 159Member
    Name of track now changed to Trippy Chick
  • CortRedHandedCortRedHanded Posts: 621Member
    Not really the type of music I usually listen to - when it comes to instrumental guitar I prefer slower stuff like your other track.

    Having said that, it is played and produced to a very high standard.
  • Skyline_UKSkyline_UK Posts: 110Member
    Nice toon, Barry. I liked the arrangement, sounds, variations, the lot really! You put a lot work into this, I can tell. Well done and thanks for sharing this.

    John
  • DaveBassDaveBass Posts: 3,315Member
    Unfortunately SoundCloud doesn't work on Firefox. At least, I've never been able to get it to work. Not your fault, Barry, but maybe you should put in a complaint!

    Dave
  • Bob GnarlyBob Gnarly Posts: 159Member
    Thanks for the comments guys. Dave, Soundcloud works on Firefox(mac) for me. Thanks for trying anyway.

    Edit: have you tried disabling adblocker for soundcloud page?
  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    Hey Bob.
    Really not my taste...but, I found it uplifting.
    Sort of free-bird meets some thin lizzy thing.
    What I hated was the twiddling stuff (super fast scales), that always sounds tacky to me and lends nothing to the melody (which is what i'm all about), just my opinion. I usually dislike cheesy guitar harmonies (and you have them here in large wedges)...but again there's something engaging in the "tune" that goes beyond techniques. I would like to hear it stripped down a bit..in terms of playing.

    Good thing you changed the title too (neil young would be turning in his...er...wherever he sleeps).

    You should really check out Omar Lopez Rodrigeuz (if you haven't already)...twiddle "thang" but with a much darker edge;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycfl0huGhoQ

    I liked your track.
    Really nice pace and rythmn with a simple yet moving progression underneath and a nice energetic melody. Good clear/solid production.

    Really enjoyed the listen, thanks.
    Mike.
  • OldSwannerOldSwanner Posts: 56Member
    Omar Lopez Rodriguez hmm.

    Checked him out and checked him straight back in.

    Don't think GnarlyBob has too much to learn from that guy.

    Did you see my private message to you Bob?
  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    Dear Oldswanner.
    I guess that's why Omar is "one of the most influencial contemporary guitarists".Check out Mars Volta...the clip I posted was a bit in haste. Although not my fav player ever, really worth looking into...honestly.

    His signature Ibanez is a tasty axe too.

    Bob's song was good, but you can't compare....not taking anything away from Bob.

    Jees, I know you're talking about technique...that's such a limited view.
    Feel, expression, originality, energy, creativity, blah blah blah. Ha ha ha.

    I challenge you to convert me...who's "good" in your world then?

    Love Mike. ;\)

  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    Ooops sorry, just checked out your website....we'll never agree...I'm a guitar teacher and an Art teacher (secondary school). My philosophy is slightly different.
    i strongly believe technique is purely a foundation. Every "skill" can become something more, the whole can always be more than the sum of it's parts. Which you only seem to think applies to singing and songwriting????? What about writing original guitar parts? Mechanics?
    Quote:

    "Why the greatest players will elicit something above the norm when executing those same movements is a subject for debate, but one in which I would favour the explanation of superior mechanical technique rather than some God given gift. Areas in which I would take the other point of view are the “skills” of singing and songwriting, in which natural talent beats trained expertise every time."
  • OldSwannerOldSwanner Posts: 56Member
    Mars Volta solo is more of the same .. to me he's just another Hendrix copycat, without any originality, and not especially good at it.

    Prince is a good example of a guy who took a lot from Hendrix, and did his own thing with it.

    As for me .. I still get the shivers from the Classic Electric Blues artists .. like this, for example.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn_Se7oqVSw
  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    Yes great, you have to give it to the old blues players.

    I never played or even liked blues (I know, strange), as i got older found it in everything. Huh.

    But what you're listening to isn't technique is it? It's intuition and feel. Surely that's good playing? It's what comes directly from the player to the listener via the guitar.
    If i were to play that Otis Rush track note for note, it would be painting by numbers, pure technique(in my opinion).
    I'd rather look at a Carravaggio than a well executed copy. You can't be anything like the original no matter how good your techniques is...because the "art" isn't yours.

    Hence my reaction to your claim that guitar playing is purely technique...and further our discussion re Rodriguez. (by the way I agree he refernces hendrix, but then who doesn't refernce someone else?)

    Technique can be a massive disadvantage...luckily it's something I'm not cursed with.

    Sorry, all excited to have someone to debate with...

    Cheers swanner.
  • OldSwannerOldSwanner Posts: 56Member
     Originally Posted By: Tinyghost
    But what you're listening to isn't technique is it? It's intuition and feel.


    Sure, the choice of notes is intuition and feel. The *sound* Otis Rush makes however, is pure exquisite technique, which is why it's so hard to emulate.

    You could learn every note and play it bang on time but still not come close to the majesty of the performance in question, *unless* you have the technique to match.
  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    Oh ok.
    Yes technique is paramount if you want to emulate.
    But Otis would never learn what he played note for note in order to play that again.
    He would rely on his own intuition and feel in the moment, technique is way back in his unconscious.

    I think a good player, plays beyond technique (more than the sum of what they've learnt)...unless they are trying to sound like the recorded version of something...in which case, put a CD on.
  • OldSwannerOldSwanner Posts: 56Member
     Originally Posted By: Tinyghost
    I think a good player, plays beyond technique (more than the sum of what they've learnt.


    I disagree strongly. Anyone can only play *within* their technical limitations, both mental and physical. On a "good night" you can play at the top end of this, but will always be limited by that top end.

    Improvement is making the top end higher than it used to be.
  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    Hmmm...
    But technique as you defined it is the "mechanics" of playing.

    Mental, physical, emotional, psychological, environmental, atmospheric, technical, acoustic, temperature, humidity, time of day...I could go on, but I wouldn't call these important musical/sonic factors mechanical and definitely not "technique". Some people are gifted enough to use, respond to and manipulate these factors...as well as play notes good.

    In my opinion, the combination of all these factors (and possibly more) can add up to sound/playing beyond what you can practice.

    It all ultimately depends on how you define technique I suppose.
    Plus what is "good" is wholly subjective (hence I like Rodrigeuz and you dn't).
  • OldSwannerOldSwanner Posts: 56Member
     Originally Posted By: Tinyghost
    Hmmm...
    But technique as you defined it is the "mechanics" of playing.

    There are mental mechanics involved as well as physical, for example the ability to count subconsciously while playing.


     Originally Posted By: Tinyghost
    Mental, physical, emotional, psychological, environmental, atmospheric, technical, acoustic, temperature, humidity, time of day...I could go on, but I wouldn't call these important musical/sonic factors mechanical and definitely not "technique". Some people are gifted enough to use, respond to and manipulate these factors...as well as play notes good.

    These are external factors which contribute to whether one has a "good night" as I referred to above, or not! They are unrelated to one's level of technique.

     Originally Posted By: Tinyghost
    In my opinion, the combination of all these factors (and possibly more) can add up to sound/playing beyond what you can practice.

    On what do you base your opinion?

     Originally Posted By: Tinyghost
    It all ultimately depends on how you define technique I suppose.

    Well you can redefine it to suit yourself if you like. But the fact is that one's physical technique is how well one handles the physical side of playing, and one's mental technique is how well one handles the mental side of playing.

     Originally Posted By: Tinyghost
    Plus what is "good" is wholly subjective (hence I like Rodrigeuz and you dn't).

    No one's arguing with that.
  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    We've lost the plot here.

    I'm saying these factors are present at all times...you are simplifying by saying playing music is just (now you're saying mental and physical) technique.

    It's not about "on a good night"...it's about an hollistic artistic expression (I bet you hate that wording...actually i do). But you see what i'm getting at.
    Why are some ...let's say classical musicians... better than others? It's generally excepted that this is "so", even though many highly skilled musicians can play the piece with impecable technique?

    Because they combine many elements into their performance/playing etc.

    I guess this is opinion. But surely there must have been times when you can say...no-one else can play it like that?

    I'm not trying to define "technique", I was referring to your definition...which is why I wanted to discuss this;

     Quote:
    playing any piece of guitar music correctly is nothing more than following a strictly defined set of mechanical movements


    I also don't understand how you make this distinction (see below). I am primarily a song writer, but can't see how playing with passion is any different. Although i don't believe in "natural talent", I think it's more about bringing personality to the music.

     Quote:
    Areas in which I would take the other point of view are the “skills” of singing and songwriting, in which natural talent beats trained expertise every time.


    I come to music from the opposite point of view (fine art degree etc). I'll also add I don't believe in there being a right way to play the guitar, and what you might consider technical mistakes are the very things that give the music it's appeal.

    So,contemporary art....
    no only kidding, even I wouldn't touch that topic.
  • OldSwannerOldSwanner Posts: 56Member
    Your response is very vague. To discuss at the level you wish to, perhaps you could provide examples... maybe a classical piece played separately by two masters, one version of which is clearly more "musical".
  • Bob GnarlyBob Gnarly Posts: 159Member
    Thanks for the comments Mike. Don't really want to get drawn in to the argument (discussion) re technique, but I take your points on board. Realise I probably overdid the cheesy harmonies and hope to improve as I go along. If you listen to my other track on Soundcloud I resisted the urge to add any harmonies, and the playing is less note intensive.

    Oldswanner, I got your PM, haven't had a go yet.
  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    Nice one Bob (Barry?).
    I did really like it. Don't change anything on my account. Oh and you do have great technique! I will look forward to hearing the other track.

    Hey Oldswanner, thanks for the debate.

    We have different takes, I know a few people with simillar views to yourself, but I guess we are talking about whether something is "Art" (which is where I'm coming from) or music. It's about aesthetics probably, and i respect that you don't feel they come into (specifically) guitar playing...but they do in songwriting and singing.
    It's the destinction you made that fascinated me...not heard that before


    ...and I respect your point of view and it has challenged me to question my own understanding.

    Although i'm still of the opinion that guitar playing can be more than
    "A strictly defined set of mechanical movements".

    Peace.
    Mike.
  • OldSwannerOldSwanner Posts: 56Member
     Originally Posted By: Tinyghost
    Hey Oldswanner, thanks for the debate.


    Hehe, most welcome, I can never resist a good debate on a subject close to my heart, as English Bob will testify.

    Food for thought ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLHR8zaEsA8

    vs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXgv2Oc4BLk&feature=related#

    What do you think Mike?
  • TinyghostTinyghost Posts: 834Member
    Reminds me of an old programme "out of town" with Jack Hargreaves. It was a depressing show when you're a kid.

    However, both beautiful performances, both with unique interpretation.

    I couldn't compare.

    What's your take?
  • OldSwannerOldSwanner Posts: 56Member
    Well, before comments were removed, there were many slating Yepes for playing too fast. I always liked it however ... certainly the fastest version I've seen.

    There are also a few glitches in his version indicating that he's playing at his absolute max speed *in performance*, no mean feat. His version sounds urgent and "on the edge", because it is.

    Xuefei Yang's rendition by contrast sounds beautifully relaxed as though she is playing well inside her max speed. But I adore her version also, for its sheer musicality.

    The point I guess is that Xuefei Yang could play a fair bit faster if she chose, leaving her less mental space to focus on the musical (crescendo, rubato etc.) in favour of the impact of greater speed.

    Yepes could equally slow down, thereby allowing himself more mental space to focus on what we'd call "musicality" or "presentation".

    The prerequisite for both versions however is the "strictly defined set of mechanical movements", ie. to get the correct notes out in the correct rhythm. Only once this is "programmed in", can the player then make the sorts of choices outlined above.
  •  Originally Posted By: Bob Gnarly
    With new found confidence after positive comments from last tune, I would be delighted if you would have a wee listen to my new ditty, and maybe comment (sets self up for fall)

    Cinnamon Girl



    Thank You.
    Bob (Barry)



    Wow - Really great composition. Don't take this the wrong way and hopefully you will take it as a compliment....

    Some of the arpegio pieces and speedier things reminded me of the old Vinnie Moore videos (which I worshipped when I was in my youth) and the overal feel has an 80s film sound track vibe.

    It does have an 80s cheese vibe but done in a very very professional way - and would like to think this was deliberate on your behalf!

    I loved it.
  • Options
     Originally Posted By: OldSwanner
    Hehe, most welcome, I can never resist a good debate on a subject close to my heart, as English Bob will testify.


    Arf.
  • Bob GnarlyBob Gnarly Posts: 159Member
    Thanks for the comments Richard. All taken as compliments. I also used to love the first couple of Vinnie Moore videos (although I'm a long way from his fretboard mastery) and also love cheese, from any decade. \:\)
  •  Originally Posted By: Bob Gnarly
    Thanks for the comments Richard. All taken as compliments. I also used to love the first couple of Vinnie Moore videos (although I'm a long way from his fretboard mastery) and also love cheese, from any decade. \:\)


    Excellent!

    You know when you give someone what you want to be a massive compliment and you wonder whether they will read it the way you wanted it to come across?

    Nice work
  • Options
    Not a huge instrumental guitar fan either, but I do like the way you use odd numbers of notes in your runs so that rhythmic accents end up falling in interesting places. Very funky. Do you play drums?
  • Bob GnarlyBob Gnarly Posts: 159Member
    Hi Bob, thanks for listening and for your comments. I've never played drums, although I've programmed lots of drum tracks over the years.
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